The final installment of Martin Cloake‘s views on the whole Stratford debate.
Another thank you to Martin for letting us hack his work up and so give us a great catalyst for debate.
One of the problems with the opposition to the Stratford proposals is the high profile of David Lammy. He never seemed particularly interested in Spurs before, but now he’s the champion of the ordinary fan. And his interventions come across as grandstanding.
There’s also the fact that he is attempting to pin much of the ‘blame’ for Tottenham’s interest in Stratford on Boris Johnson.
I’m no more a fan of Johnson than I am of Lammy, but the fact that Lammy is managing the Mayoral campaign of Johnson’s rival Ken Livingstone does make you think. There are many people people playing a game within a game here.
While it’s not clear whether Spurs ever asked for the public assistance Lammy says they should have, it’s also not at all clear that Lammy has done much constructively to address the real concerns Spurs have about their relationship with Haringey.
I was initially critical of what seemed to be Spurs’ insistance that a lot of public funds be used to support their private company. But the pendulum seems to have swung now. I’d have more time for Lammy if he told us clearly what constructive proposals he’s put forward to broker a deal that would keep Tottenham in Tottenham.
Some of the arguments the club and people seeking to its case have used are simply daft and a little insulting. I’ll say again that I think there’s a lot of tosh talked about ‘community’ by the anti-Stratford campaigners, but Spurs have matched them.
The club said that Stratford “is only five miles east”. Anyone who knows anything about London knows that even a mile makes a huge difference in this big and complex city in which the concepts of manor and loyalty are deeply entrenched.
Architect David Keirle, who it looks like may have been put up as a lightning conductor in this whole debate, said that no one wanted to move from Maine Road to the City of Manchester stadium when he was involved with that, but now no one would move back.
David, if you take a look at a map you’ll see both stadiums are in Manchester. Which may explain things. There’s more than a hint of ‘we’ll do it and the mugs will come’ about some of the views put forward – although to be honest us fans don’t help ourselves with our often illogical loyalty.
The daft arguments aren’t confined to one side, though. There’s a lot of jumping up and down about how knocking the stadium down would be a waste of taxpayers money. But even if West Ham get the stadium, much of it will be torn down and public money will be used to help the club convert it for its purposes. It’s that fact which may well swing the decision for Spurs in these austere – at least for those of us who don’t work in the banks – financial times.
I set out the position my heart takes at the start of this piece.
But I recognise – God I’m getting old – that the head must play its part too. If it is true that it would damage the club financially to stay in Tottenham, and that case is far from proven, then I’d regretfully accept the necessity to move. I’d probably go to Stratford to watch the team, but I don’t think it would be the same. But when we talk about value and investment and return, what is meant? What makes financial sense for, let’s say, an investment company looking to sell to a major player in the entertainments market, may not make the same sense in the longer term for a football team.
Tottenham’s owners are an investment company and investment companies seek a return on their investment. Spurs existed a long time before ENIC came, and will – let’s hope – exist for a long time after they go.
The interests of the owners and the club are not always the same, although Tottenham’s board members get very annoyed if you point that fact out. It’s that potential difference of interest that sits at the heart of this, and which explains why the debate is getting bitter. Because it’s possible that ENIC and Joe Lewis could make a nice return on their investment while leaving behind a franchise with an increasingly tenous link to its history and which is just one arm of a global entertainment business.
To me, all the indications are that Spurs will go to Stratford if they possibly can. I am far from convinced that is the right decision, or that the decision has been made in the interests of the club rather than the club’s owners. I’ve already seen the heart of the home support ripped out in the 1980s when executive boxes replaced one of the finest popular terraces in the country. I’ve watched the club drift under the awful leadership of Alan Sugar.
And now I should be enjoying some of the finest football I’ve ever seen my club play. But, and there’s always a but with Tottenham, there is a shadow hanging over us, the shadow of Franchise Hotspur in Stratford, the global entertainment channel.
I’m prepared, still, to be convinced. But right now, I’m not.
Click the image below to launch the Holly Weber gallery
On another footballing matter… One site is saying Sewer Rez could be on his way to dip bins.
That couldn’t possibly mean someone leaving could it (And I don’t mean NNNgog)????
:-p
It appears they would like Suarez to pair up with Torres. Which suits me cos Torres is a little broken. Certainly broken enough for me to pray we never spend a ridiculous amount of money on such a guy.
Not even just a little “Levy sized’ amount of ridiculous money?
I read an article today by Sir Craig Reedie who was the Ex British Olympic Association Chairman 1995 – 2005. He was basically backing West Ham for the OS and saying how well the running track at previous Olympic Stadium work with a football stadium citing Rome (1960) as an example.
It is my belief that they don’t work together and looked at all of the Olympic Stadia since then and what has happened to them. It makes interesting reading and mostly undermines what he has said. I will admit that some of the host cities are not the hotbed of football that perhaps he was alluring to, but judge for yourselves.
1964 Tokyo – National Football stadium, no club plays there.
1968 Mexico – Football & American Football.
1972 Munich – Bayern played there until 2005 then moved to a new stadium with no track.
1976 Montreal – Football 81-83.
1980 Moscow – Yes Spartak play there & Champions League Final recently.
1984 Los Angeles – Track removed, College American Football.
1988 Seoul – Football from 2007 – 2009, then team moved out to a 15,000 stadium with no track.
1992 Barcelona – Espanyol played there until 2008 when they moved to a new stadium without a track.
1996 Atlanta – Track removed, now a Baseball Stadium.
2000 Sydney – Track removed.
2004 Athens – Football & held Champions League Final recently.
2008 Beijing – Entertainment complex, tourist attractions & shopping mall.
Niiiiiiiiiice work fella ! :cool:
Great debate and one that will run and run imho.
As an expat in Canada I kinda agree with those who say who cares wtf you think, you don’t go.
It is really about season tcket holders, regular attendees as there the ones paying the money.
Unfortunately(or not) for every season ticket holder current, with a new state of the art stadium there be someone to take their place.
The anonimity of supporting Spurs n Canada is reassuring. As someone touched on earlier, not sure I would be happy to see people parading in Spurs shirts when you know they have no real connection to Spurs, albeit in Tottenham or Stratford.
Be careful what you wish for.
Here’s what a forty-year plus supporter wrote me the other day. I post it because he’s the sort of quiet, decent, middle-of-the-road bloke that is the backbone of all clubs, ours too.
“The move from Maine Road was generally well received by the City fans. Although Maine Road had been home to the club for 80 years it was recognised that the ground was no longer adequate. The facilities were poor (eg it was difficult to park), and I remember that parts of the terraces had poor views, obscured by pillars. The City of Manchester Stadium was an attractive alternative. The stadium was brand new, built to a high specification for the Commonwealth Games, and offered to Manchester City on attractive leasehold terms.
Maine Road is in the Moss Side / Levenshulme area, to the south-east of the city centre. The new stadium at Eastlands is less than four miles away. It keeps City to the east of Manchester itself, far away from United in the west. The geography may not be so important in Manchester by comparison with London, but City’s fan base has always been to the south and east of the city. Eastlands is within a 20 minute walk east from the main railway station in the city centre.
I’m not sure that a move for Spurs, albeit similar, will be quite as easy. The London clubs tend to be identified more by the area in which they are based than do the two main clubs in Manchester – Chelsea, Fulham, QPR to the west, Crystal Palace, Charlton and Millwall to the south, West Ham and Leyton Orient to the east and of course Spurs and Arsenal to the north. Plus a few others. No-one thinks of Arsenal as a south London club even though their origins were in Woolwich. I reckon that Spurs’ identity would have to change much more fundamentally than City’s were they to move the seven miles to Stratford. Additionally, they would be moving in on West Ham’s doorstep, which certainly wouldn’t endear them to the east enders.
It will be interesting to see what happens!”
On another topic, I’d love to see that Portuguese striker (is his name Hulk? Doesn’t sound Portuguese) in a Spurs shirt. Despite the disappointment Postiga turned out to be.
Great article in total by Martin. Still no closer to the answers but the debate shows the depth of feeling everyone has invested in this.