Good morning.
The tiresome issue of Club Statements dominates and perhaps the Inter Lull is a useful opportunity for some of us to pull the car over switch the engine off, take a deep breath and have a bloody good long hard look at ourselves. Arsenal fans who for who knows how long suffered abuse actually matched and perhaps even outshone Tottenham cavemen with their own hate songs on Sunday.
As I’ve mentioned previously, even for those with no moral center be they Arsenal or Spurs – no value system worth speaking of – the fact that both clubs have seen fit to issue a statement condemning those with a lust for bullying – and face facts, that’s essentially what this is -that the jig is well and truly up.
I actually think this blog is well past the point of ‘arguing the case’ against the minority of bigots hiding behind the ‘it’s banter/just a laugh’ defense. The notion that somehow buying a ticket to a football match gives one a passport to bully using race, or inferences of homophobia or suggest child abuse is a deluded one.
Yes, banter is good. The sharper, the nastier the better in my book. But sing about child molestation in a supposedly humourous way? Have any of you choirboys got children? Are you allowed near children?
I don’t ’embrace’ the whole politically correct gig. But this garbage needs knocking on the head now. I don’t even understand how it’s still in existence.
BIOYC!
Evenin’ all… Sorry, been waylaid recently. The good lady is ready to drop the beloved soon-to-be-THFC client no. and I’ve been cramming work like a 14yr old before a mock ‘O’ level.
It’s a thornt subject but I think our esteemed Harold Hotspur summed it up once when he said he;d have the BNP on the TV every night as it showed them to be the blithering idiots that they are.
The right to free speech is rightly defended and I’d hate to see the club taking a legal route in all of this – But the reality is that there is certain behaviour which is just plain anti-social and which, naturally, reaches the end of it’s thankfully short life.
When the anti-racism movement gathered strength in the late 70’s and early 80’s, there was huge resistance to what was seen as political correctness (before the phrase even existed!) but we as a nation thankfully have made huge strides to the point that we stare with indignance at countries where it still seems that Eddie Booth is alive and well and shouting ‘C**n’ over the garden wall.
Banter will always be banter, but there will be a time soon where people will genuinely look back at some of the football songs of this period and shake their heads… Especially when they realise that these songs were sung in the earshot of kids.
The old chestnut of ‘don’t take kids to a mans game if you’re not prepared for the inevitable’ is pretty disingenuous and frankly an abdication of all moral responsibility. And this is what this is… It’s a personal moral issue but one which we need to accept affects those around us – Like drink driving, smoking in public places and other social ills.
People should be entitled to take their kids to a game without having to cover their ears or do some awkward explaining after, the same way they should be entitled to walk up the street and not be afraid of some pissed up loon mounting the kerb and the same way women should be allowed to wear skirts without worrying about being raped.
There are better fights to pick if you want to protect human rights. Let’s just move gracefully with the 21st century and behave like adults… We can be so much funnier when we put our minds to it.
Astro,
Once again with your writing, it’s like someone shining a light on a dark place, everything seems clearer.
With you to guide them, your child will find life an enjoyable place.
Thank you.
I took my 9 and 11 yr old lads to see Spurs vs Leeds some years back and had to explain to them that Spurs fans like to refer to their Yorkshire opponents as sheep
shaggersshavers – after participating in said chant. A bit of an awkward moment at that age but they’ve now come to understand the nature of their great-grandparents pastoral existence in Wales and Yorkshire. I would hate to think that people here would permit only gov’t legislated speech in football songs. Free speech doesn’t jive with freedom from being offended. As long as it’s not racist and bullying speech, it’s all good. Let the clubs decide what level of swearing they’ll put up with, knowing that if they ban it entirely, there won’t be many songs left.I completely disagree. We could just focus on our own team/players and I think most/all of the offensive songs would disappear.
I guess I expected plenty of people here to defend singing those songs. It’s personal preference in a social context, as Astromesmo said.
Make sure your kids read some books Seppo, I fear for their upbringing.
The kids are 22 and 20 now and sing the songs in the supporters club pub in NY. They’ve turned out fine and have a strong belief in liberty. Like I said, no one supports bullying or racism. We don’t sing the Sol song, but a poke at Wenger is all in good fun. It’s a ridiculous insult that isn’t taken seriously by anyone. Everything has a proper context.
@ Astromesmo I fail to see anything humorous or humour inducing in the words of your comment at all – I found it all very bland and conformist. :gaehn:
@ Astro
BNP? RACISM? What the f*ck have they got to do with the chanting?
Where has all this come from?
The chants from the Spurs fans to Wenger weren’t racist!!
The chants from the Arsenal fans to Adebayor and Redknapp weren’t racist!!
Blaming the BNP and screaming “racism” every time there’s negative chanting at a football ground loses its credibility.
No matter how nicely written.
A very well written post Astro but speaks of nothing we didn’t already know…There will also be a time where people will look back at the freedom fans had during 90 minutes at a football match to vent their anger at the opposition and think “ahh the good old days”
Hartley, if you look at footage of football in the 50’s and 60’s at WHL, do you think those people aren’t enjoying themselves? Yet they did so without stabbing anyone, beating people up in the side streets and generally acting the lout.
What I’m saying is that we’ve realised that it’s ridiculous to go to football and stab people, we’ve thankfully walked away in the main from patrolling the streets to give people a ‘good kicking’ and eventually, that sense of responsibility will extend to showing some moral responsibility to the people around around us.
The Inter game last season had probably one of the best atmosphere’s I’ve ever experienced in 35 years at the Lane – Including the UEFA cup final and we sand songs like Glory, Glory and felt no need to sing about hanging black people from trees, black people washing elephants, paedophiles or any other vile bilge. The best line of the night was ‘Taxi for Maicon’ – True, ingenious football humour.
Personally, I go to a football game to enjoy the match, maybe you should try anger management sessions if you have problems?
Anglian – Cheers. I’ll take that as a compliment.
Spurious, thank you. I really appreciate your words with the arrival so imminent!!! Maybe it’s made me think even more about our responsibility as adults.
You’re far too sensible, mature and balanced to be on this blog…..
Oh dear, and there was me thinking you were one of the free thinkers here Billy. :-(
@eastanglianspur
That stings eastanglianspur, like a dagger through the heart…… :shifty:
Astro I am now concerned about your mental faculties and their ability to assimilate and comprehend the English language. :-D
Not everything that you see on the TV is correct Astro, hooliganism in Football was just as commonplace in the 50’s and 60’s as it was in the 80’s and 90’s but most people didn’t have a TV then..
The first alleged recorded instances of football hooliganism in the modern game took place in the 1880s in England, a period when gangs of supporters would intimidate neighbourhoods, as well as attack referees and opposing supporters and players. In 1885, after Preston North End beat Aston Villa 5-0 in a friendly match, the two teams were pelted with stones; attacked with sticks, punched, kicked and spat at. One Preston player was beaten so severely that he lost consciousness. Press reports of the time described the fans as “howling roughs”. The following year, Preston fans fought Queen’s Park fans in a railway station; the first alleged instance of football hooliganism away from a match. In 1905, several Preston fans were tried for hooliganism, including a “drunk and disorderly” 70 year old woman, following their match against Blackburn Rovers.
Between the two world wars, there were no recorded instance of football hooliganism, (though for example Millwall’s ground was reportedly closed in 1920, 1934 and 1950 after crowd disturbances) but it started attracting widespread media attention in the late 1950s due to its re-emergence in Latin America. In the 1955-56 English football season, Liverpool and Everton fans were involved in a number of incidents. By the 1960s, an average of 25 hooligan incidents were being reported each year in England.
Not entirely on the topic of Racism more respect for opposing fans. Upon leaving the lane on Sunday after a couple of quick drinks in Tottenham we hopped on the tube back into town. The tube was full of Spurs fans and was rocking. When we stopped at Highbury I thought the thing was going to come off the tracks as a chorus of North London is ours rang out, I’m sure it could be heard on the street above. Anyway there were two Gonners stuck in among all of us very sweaty boozed up Yiddo’s and the took whatever stick we threw at them. We even let them sing a song of their own but it was at that point that a group of 4 rough looking blokes got on (not wearing colours) & wanted to eat these 2 lads alive but the lads on the tube told them to basically leave it out and made sure the two Gonners were safe. I would hope in the reverse situation I would be treated the same by the Scum fans. That said I got a lot of satisfaction when I got home to Dublin Monday eve and sat down to watch my recorded football first to see the very same Gooners at the end of the game ashen faced and teary eyed in glorious HD. :lol: :lol:
You can certainly see your expertise within the work you write. The sector hopes for even more passionate writers like you who are not afraid to say how they believe. At all times go after your heart.