Good morning.
The tiresome issue of Club Statements dominates and perhaps the Inter Lull is a useful opportunity for some of us to pull the car over switch the engine off, take a deep breath and have a bloody good long hard look at ourselves. Arsenal fans who for who knows how long suffered abuse actually matched and perhaps even outshone Tottenham cavemen with their own hate songs on Sunday.
As I’ve mentioned previously, even for those with no moral center be they Arsenal or Spurs – no value system worth speaking of – the fact that both clubs have seen fit to issue a statement condemning those with a lust for bullying – and face facts, that’s essentially what this is -that the jig is well and truly up.
I actually think this blog is well past the point of ‘arguing the case’ against the minority of bigots hiding behind the ‘it’s banter/just a laugh’ defense. The notion that somehow buying a ticket to a football match gives one a passport to bully using race, or inferences of homophobia or suggest child abuse is a deluded one.
Yes, banter is good. The sharper, the nastier the better in my book. But sing about child molestation in a supposedly humourous way? Have any of you choirboys got children? Are you allowed near children?
I don’t ’embrace’ the whole politically correct gig. But this garbage needs knocking on the head now. I don’t even understand how it’s still in existence.
BIOYC!
Once inside the stadium, anything that could possibly offend the opposition is fair game in my view. That’s football in this country and one of the reasons why it matters so much to the average fan. Take that away and you might as well go and watch trains on a saturday afternoon….
Anything that offends the opposition is fair game? So if I raped the wife of the opposing team captain in front of him behind the goal, that would be ok?? :-)
If you raped the wife of the opposing teams captain you would be a rapist, we are quite clearly discussing chanting and verbal abuse. Raping the opposing teams captain would in my view be a step too far, even thinking about it is probably wrong…. :unsure:
It was tongue in cheek mate. But how would you feel if you were constantly being called a paedophile? Or if a friend of yours had been kileld and you were being told that they’d wish it was you? Just because they are in the public eye and earn stupid amounts of money, doesn’t mean that we should be allowed to direct disgraceful comments towards people.
And there ladies and gentlemen is your problem neatly packaged in one paragraph.
@ Gilzeanwasagod
Alan Gilzean was a fantastic player. BUT, to use his name in the same context as some sort of God can be deemed blasphemy.
There are some people that would find your name highly offensive! Especially if there are children reading your post and are convinced that worshiping idols is an acceptable thing in a modern society.
:-D :-D
shocking attitude. Other sports don’t denigrate, why should we??
Am I missing something, is it holy day? I was at WHL on Sunday and about 25,000 Spurs fans were singing ‘sit down’ to Auntie Wenger and from my viewpoint I didn’t see anyone complaining, in fact quite the opposite most were smiling and enjoying the banter…Football has changed over the years, no standing, no swearing, no smoking, no drinking…..once the chants go out of the window, then it will be….no atmosphere, which will turn it into other sports, bowls, tennis, cricket, basketball etc…
If you want to be PC to the point where you can only be described as one of the flock then BAAAAAA to you….I’m a Spurs fan who hates Ar5ena1, Cheatski, West Ham amonst others and from time to time I would like to be allowed to share my hatred with fellow yids at a football match……..
if you want to suggest that you can only make a noise by being incredibly offensive, you are a stupid ****.
I go to matches, I sing songs about glory days and our favourite players, or when an opposition player falls over and the crowd rise as one to a chorus of “she fell over!” That’s an atmosphere.
You spewing hate cos of some strange cultural frustration mixed with alcohol is not an atmosphere, it’s a **** spewing hate.
Can you recognise the difference? 8O
“if you want to suggest that you can only make a noise by being incredibly offensive, you are a stupid ****.”
We may have different views on this subject but there really is no need to be offensive… For your information I very rarely chant, I’m too busy watching the match. I don’t drink as I have a 500 mile round trip, but I do have a giggle when something funny is chanted whether offensive or not….’Keown’s got a monkey’s head’ ‘I can’t read, I can’t write,that don’t really matter…. I’m a Norwich City fan and I can drive a tractor’ ‘ sit down you paedophile’
We are in this country supposed to have something called freedom of speech, we don’t but we are supposed to….
Hartley, the reason I’m being offensive is because you deserve it, that much is clear.
I guess there’s some sort of irony in you telling me there is no need to be offensive, right?
I think the biggest problem here is that you were not brought up proper, and think that being overtly offensive is funny. I just use it to insult people I don’t like.
If you want to have a giggle, try laughing at humour, it was literally made for it.
Do you read your posts before sending them?
no
Hartley “universal freedom of speech” is a fallacy usually used by those who spout the indefensible and then use it to hide behind. There are limits, legal limits, to freedom of speech in our country – I suggest you look them up! Sick to death of idiotic knuckle-dragging morons ruining rare days at WHL because they think that spouting unabashed bile is somehow “banter”!!
Another who hides behind an anonymous title, and yet another getting quite irate and using name calling/pigeonholing tactics simply because they disagree with others views. Calm down dearest, you will win in the end…..unfortunately :daumen:
I’m not hiding behind anything – I’m simply telling you that your “we’re supposed to have freedom of speech” line is flat out wrong – glorifying terrorism and abusive, threatening and insulting behaviour are all illegal in this country. If you don’t like it, the solution is simple; they have flights, trains and boats leaving these shores daily – you won’t be missed.
Hmmm, think I’m done here. Difficult arguing with anonymous sheep and I’ve got kittens to drown and orphans to kick this afternoon…
Islamic fascists in this country do abuse, threaten, and insult returning soldiers; they also delight in deaths of every group, they hate, Jews, Hindus’, Christians, and protest that they wish the end to freedom, democracy, and total Islamic state through out the world, I don’t see them going anywhere near prison. In fact, I’m told that I should tolerate their intolerance. And by the way, I suggest you actually, find out where the term PC comes from, you have to go back to 1919. Perhaps more interesting, is the exact meaning of the word Iran, you’d be shocked; unless you’re a left-wing loon, then it’ll make perfect sense.
and for the record your complaints about anonymity on the internet are as ridiculous as your free speech defense! The notion that the truth from a stranger is any less truthful is absurd!
We spell it ‘defence’ in the UK and I have no problem debating with a stranger who chooses to hide behind a pseudonym, if that is your choice then so be it.
@Chrispurs
Rather be a “left-wing loon” than a right-wing Twat!
Why is it that all those who are against the offensive songs are the only ones who can’t debate without themselves being highly offensive? It doesn’t make any sense…. :hae:
@hartley
Songs about murdered human beings and paedophilia: Not offensive.
‘right-wing Twat’: “highly offensive”
Blimey, i thought we, the “left-wing loons” were supposed to be the highly over-sensitive ones!
Left and right is a construct designed specifically to divide and rule the plebs/proles. They’ve been doing it for nearly two hundred years.
@eastanglianspur
And the ‘left-wing’ have been in power in this country for how many years exactly?
It’s the class system that divides and rules, always has been and unfortunately, looks like it always will be (for the forseeable future anyway).
@Billy They have been in power ever since the days of Marx, if not before, say 1694 with the first Bank of England.
Three of the major planks of the Communist Manifesto are the Central Bank – the Graduated Income Tax and State Controlled Education. It doesn’t matter which party wins a so called election the real ‘government’ never changes.
“He who votes decides nothing – he who counts the votes decides everything.” – Josef Stalin.
The class system was created by those who control the money i.e. making sure there was never enough of it to go round. All the recessions and depressions are caused deliberately so those with the money can buy up all the assets at cents on the dollar.
Agree with your last paragraph.
The Uncle Joe quote is bang on also.
The first two paragraphs however, i mean blimey, we could do this till the cows come home!
However, i don’t think H-H or the other posters would be too enamoured if we turned part of this football blog into a ‘critique of political economy’ or Marxist philosophy in relation to Capital.
If we really got into it, i’d like to think we would probably agree on most points, just got to iron out the creases in the differences and meaning of our individual interpretation of certain linguistics.
*Phew, it’s like being back in the 6th Form*
**Oh, and ‘free thinking’ is a ‘state of mind’ (see what i did there!!)** :daumen:
but you clearly do have a problem with it..
“Difficult arguing with anonymous sheep”
“Another who hides behind an anonymous title”
“States the man/woman who hides behind an anonymous title… “
It’s your go-to response when you can’t compete intellectually. And re the spelling…realy? You can’t actually argue your position so you pick up on a sole spelling error? We call it “pedant” in the UK!
If you have something vaguely intelligent to say I’m all for it. If, as I suspect however, you are simply some kind of internet hero on a rebellious crusade, I’ll not further waste my time on you!
“It’s your go-to response when you can’t compete intellectually. And re the spelling…realy?” Really? :-p bye, bye, whoever you are :winke:
I’ll compete with you intellectually if you’d like to deal with the facts, it is you that are ‘on a crusade’ (another expression, you’re not allow to use; dear oh dear you’ve slipped up), I’ll put it you sweetie, that it is your opinions that you want to hear, and no one else. I’d have Hartley over you any day.
Go back to school, and get your self an education.
Just to chip in a little, but if a crowd of 36k are present and 25k of said crowd are shouting abuse (reported), then by my reckoning 11k are either against or deaf to it! So run this democratic argument by me again, perhaps I’ve missed something?
Certainly M’lud, I didn’t include the west stand upper or the boxes as they very rarely make any noise at all or the Ar5ena1 fans and I did say ‘about 25,000’ so probably about right…
Upper East you really couldn’t hear very much ‘abuse’ at all, but my point is for all this postering and holier than thou attitude, most people get ‘sucked in’ by the occasion. As already said I didn’t, because I was too busy biting my nails and waiting for Arse to score a spawny goal. So in all honesty it doesn’t bother me because I’m not listening to it anymore than ‘I stand up if I hate Arsenal’ simply because I couln’t give a rats arse about them.
What a crock of rubbish Chrispurs. You haven’t competed, you’ve merely thrown accusations. If you can tell me why these bigoted imbeciles should be allowed to break the law (yes, that’s what they are doing!) and ruin the day of thousands of others present (fans, players and staff) and millions watching, all the while hiding behind a ridiculously irrelevant “free speech” defence, I’m all ears. By all means “educate” me!
And for the record, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with use of the word crusade in this context. I suggest you take your own advice.
Go and take your ‘talking points’ memo from your ‘intellectual’ friends, and leaders. Free speech, is exactly that, anyone can say what they like to me, as long as I can reply, free speech, can be an opinion I may hate. Indeed I’ve heard a lot worse. Would I make a vile and neoteny chant; well no I wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t stop them either (you’d know who the idiots are).If you would like a sanitized environment go to the opera.
The football clubs, can and will, make the call as to what is, and is not allowed; but for me it is the thin end of the wedge, the thought police, can be only decades away.
Finally just to say, you are completely and utterly wrong, as regards to the expression ‘Crusade’, it is totally off limits (to the PC brigade, not me); I’d suggest, you get a job in the FO, and send an email, with that word in it, your feet won’t touch the ground. Use it in an Islamic state, would be akin to suicide.
Free speech, is exactly that, anyone can say what they like to me, as long as I can reply, free speech, can be an opinion I may hate.
No it’s not. It is absolutely not. Freedom of speech is not an absolute. In this country it has legal ,imitations and the chants that we are talking about cross that line. It is not up to the football clubs to decide whether or not they do, the law of this land already does that.
Finally just to say, you are completely and utterly wrong, as regards to the expression ‘Crusade’, it is totally off limits (to the PC brigade, not me); I’d suggest, you get a job in the FO, and send an email, with that word in it, your feet won’t touch the ground. Use it in an Islamic state, would be akin to suicide.
In which case we’ll agree to disagree. Context is everything and last I checked I neither live in an Islamic state nor am I referring to anything affecting or related to the Islamic Community. Crusade doesn’t just refer to Holy Missions in medieval history. Language evolves and the word crusade has further definitions and if I choose to use it in a non-sensitive situation in the correct context you are simply wrong to claim it as inappropriate!
Are you lost? Dictionary corner is that way >>>>>
@Stumps, I don’t recollect giving anyone permission or my consent to make a statute (which is not Law) telling me I cannot say what I like when I like.
@eastanglianspur since when did they need your permission or consent? And you’re wrong btw – Freedom of Expression (and it’s limitations) are covered by the Human Rights Act and are common law in the UK.
@Stumps They always needed our permission but craftily hid that fact from us + since I withdrew my strawman name from the voter registration. I am not a voter – votes are for common stock holders only. I am a principal creditor or author of the credit as are you if you did but know it.
Which Common Law are you referring to?
I have no need of Hu-man Rights only unalienable rights – far more powerful.
Do you know the difference between a man and a hu-man?
@ Kluffah Yid
Whether you are Jewish or not, some people (including David Badiel) find the term ‘Yid’ highly offensive.
If children read this post, do you think it’s right that they think calling Jewish people Yids is acceptable?
Or are you just spewing hate?
Its because there is no football violence any more, coupled with the rise of the internet (no comebacks), and mass media, during a recession.
also on a different note about our 10 year old central midfielder.
“He could possibly go out of loan but only at the right club,” Tim Sherwood, the club’s technical co-ordinator, said.
“You don’t see Chelsea sending out [Josh] McEachran to anyone. If we were going to send Tom out anywhere it has to be a Championship club, and one who passes it, so that narrows it down to about two.”
Why does it have to be about offending? Just because there is a barrier between opposing fans does not make it big or clever to be extremely offensive, lets face it you/they would not act the same in any other situation (hopefully). So if that is the height of your/there intelligence please stay at home and read a lot of self help books on why it is important to be civil to one another despite differences.
Would you be offended, if I asked to see a pic of your boobs…..intellectually speaking of course.
@ Horny Helen.
It’s ‘their’ intelligence, not ‘there’ intelligence.
Please don’t tell other people what to do, when it’s YOU that’s not very intelligent!
I wasn’t speaking to you, (I’ll be checking your spelling and grammar) you pretentious cunt; or as Oscar Wilde, might have so wittingly put it, Bend over a take a large one up your arse!
You filthy, dirty shirtlifter.
Gone are the days when abusive songs were restricted to a player’s extra marital activities or driving licence endorsements, more’s the pity.
Haha! I remember quite a few of those directed at:
Clive Walker (flasher) – Walker is a flasher, Walker is a flasher, La la la la, la la la la.
Stan Bowles (wife was a “girl about town”) – Who’s up Stanley’s wife? Who’s up Stanley’s wife? Every every everyone, every every everyone!
Peter Shilton (crashed his car into a lamp post whilst his “bit on the side” was the car) – Tina, Tina, Tina, Tina.
My memory from 70’s & 80’s is a bit distant now. Anyone else remember any inoffensive ones/
As long as people have skeletons in their cupboards and are afraid to face them,they will always seek to allay their fears by banging their chests, posturing and abusing others so that their own insecurities are temporarily out of thought. You maybe right there may be a lot of choirmasters in the crowd along with henpecked men, guys with short mans’ syndrome, guys with large cars to make up for their lack of meat, grunting He-men with leather thongs and tattoos, hell the list goes on thats nearly all the gooners that, were at the lane not to mention the intellectually challenged neanderthals wearing Spurs regalia. ….OK thats enough.
States the man/woman who hides behind an anonymous title… :whistle:
I don’t believe your name is Hartley – unless you are J.R Hartley who is famous for fishing with his flies.
I’m sure that if you ask HH he can confirm…..
But we are generally all anonymous on here, just because your name may be Hartley and HH may know who you are it doesn’t mean that you are not anonymous to everyone else.
And I bet you don’t look like Frank Spencer either?