Good morning.
A grim start to proceedings then as we woke to the news that the inherently racist Lazio Ultras greeted Tottenham fans in the Drunken Ship public house Rome at about 0130hrs this morning in the traditional manner; battering and cutting them.
100 armed Ultras attacked leaving a current count of seven Spurs fans wounded and two stabbed.
The Italians baring Lazio colours wielded baseball bats, knuckledusters and knives. Some wore helmets. The police and fire service attended the scene and whilst arrests were made, many of the cowards involved fled. Italian media suggests that CCTV fotage of Campo de ‘Fiori is being examined.
To be honest I’d demand the game to be called off to emphasise to the powers that be that this sort of thing won’t be tolerated. I didn’t think my contempt for UEFA could increase but no, this has don’t it. There is too much money in the competition for excuses anymore. Fans must be protected.
This happens EVERYTIME. It is well documented and has been going on for over 2 decades and still it happens. Why is nothing being done? We should not play the game in protest. Something has to be done about this and it should be us to make the first move. What happens if there is further voilence tonight?
For thise that say that the “few” ruin it for the rest well I’d say go a google Lazio Ultras…..it is far from a few who participate.
This is the same pub that Middlesborough fans were attacked and stabbed in 2006!!! Final note: It took the Italian Police 30 mins to arrive……SCANDAL!
If you wish to find out more on this follow John Foot @footymac.
English clubs were banned from Europe and the hooligan culture went with it.
In recent years Italians have been guilty of match fixing, racism and repeated violence but until all of their clubs are banned for a decent amount of time nothing will change.
I just hope those injured get better soon but I’ll be amazed if UEFA take action that’s relative to the crime.
Banning had much less to do with football hooliganism being greatly reduced in the UK than CCTV, better policing and ecstasy. Unfortunately, in Italy, many clubs are essentially run by their ‘Ultras’ who are incredibly powerful (have even taken a percentage of players wages, believe it or not.) CCTV everywhere, doubling (at least) of prices, a police force who are not corrupt / paid by / part of the ultras and UEFA growing a pair is the only way forward.
UEFA and FIFA cannot take action against Lazio for something that happened outside their stadium. It happened in the street/pub, therefore it’s a civil/police matter, not technically a football matter. Does anybody here think they should be held responsible for something that happens outside the boundaries of their property?
UEFA can do whatever they damn well please with regard to their own competition. The fact that it is ALSO a police matter is neither here nor there.
The problem is that what “they damn well please” is to turn a blind eye and pretend like it’s not their responsibility.
Yes. UEFA and FIFA have responsibility to football to ensure supporters are safe when going to see a match.
If the fans of a club make the local area a dangerous place for opposing fans, then they shouldnt be hosting matches.
“UEFA and FIFA have responsibility to football to ensure supporters are safe when going to see a match.” Inside stadiums yes but the streets are the Police responsibility to keep safe, not football organizations.
Nobody is suggesting that Lazio be tasked with policing the streets, or prosecuting these particular fans. THAT is obviously for the police to deal with.
With Lazio fans, though, this is hardly the first time. The club clearly have a widespread issue with the behaviour of their fans. Although they may not be responsible for the behaviour of individual fans outside of stadium, they are certainly in the best position to do something about the problem.
Lazio could hand out lifetime matchday bans to fans found to be participating in this kind of activity, inside or outside the stadium. They are certainly in a better position to reason with these fans than anyone else (police, UEFA, or whoever).
So you have a bunch of people identifying themselves as Lazio fans committing crimes. The club are not responsible for prosecutions and arrests. But if they owned a shred of decency, they most certainly should feel a responsibility to proactively avoid future incidents.
So why don’t they? Because there is no incentive for them to do so. Worst case (based on historical evidence, anyway), they might get a slap on the wrist from UEFA of a few thousand EUR. That’s a lot cheaper than genuinely trying to fix this problem, and doesn’t risk alienating their most rabidly racist ultras.
As for FIFA and UEFA not being responsible… According to the letter of the law, no they have no formal responsibility to deal with a case such as this. But formal responsibility and moral responsibility are two very different things. If the fact that UEFA earns a huge profit from these competitions doesn’t give them some moral responsibility for their direct consequences, then I don’t know what…
LosLorenzo – yes you make some very valid points, Lazio could try to help, no denying that. My original post was largely in response to all those saying UEFA or FIFA as well as Lazio are responsible, but the fact is that they are no responsible. Doesn’t mean they can’t try to help though as you say.
Didn’t UEFA blanket ban all English clubs for 5 seasons? That excluded the likes of Watford, Coventry and some others Oxford Utd, I think…teams without any previous for taking part in a competition they’d rightfully earned, but were excluded from by the actions of others-why not blanket ban Italian clubs-there is a precedent
Whoever said that media hungry, prick of a lawyer would be all over this couldn’t be more right…and here’s his ammo: http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2012/11/22/Soccer-Anti-Semitism-may-have-been-behind-Spurs-fans-attack_7838777.html?
It’ll be our fault for the Yid chants.
There seems to be an echo in here?!
As wrong as it is, I don’t see how Lazio could do anything about it. I’d have thought that the responsibility would be the italian police.
If it happens in the stadium, kick them (lazio) out and ban them for years, but someone wearing a lazio shirt who stabs someone in a pub, not really lazio’s responsibility.
Having said that, rome / italy can be quite facist and lazio taking some form of positive action would be good, but never going to happen.
Lazio can ban whoever they want from their stadium, for whatever reasons they want (pretty much; ironically, they probably couldn’t ban someone for being a black lawyer, even under Italian law).
These hundred or so thugs, all in Lazio gear, attacking fans of the team who are going to play against Lazio tonight – whether the club like it or not, these people were “representing” the club.
So yeah, I think it would be completey reasonable to give a lifetime ban from Lazio games to all of the ultras arrested by the police, and any others proven to have taken part based on CCTV, etc.
But Lazio have no reason whatsoever to hand out these bans, because they have come to expect UEFA to act dumb and turn a blind eye to all this unpleasantness.
Just to add to what you have said, the analogy is with a publican who lets his customers drink until they are incapable, and then waves them off as they drive home. Publicans have suffered loss of license for this.
Can you imagine if we were chanting “Nigger” every time a black player touched a ball, what the FA might do. This would no doubt lead to squads of undercover stewards sitting in the stands ready to grab the offenders.
The real issue is not that it happened outside the ground, but that Lazio does nothing to stop related behaviour in their own ground.
It is effectively a parental matter. If any of us were parents, how many would claim when their kids were nicked for hooliganism, that it is nothing to do with us because it happened outside our home? The parents are expected to set an example.
word
Sorry, Los – if that chain of thought were taken to its logical conclusion, next month you could expect to see 100 neanderthal United fans dressed in City colours, waiting to smash up City’s next European opponents, just to get them chucked out of European competition…
Just using United / City as an example, of course.
This one is for the police.
“lifetime ban […] ultras arrested by the police”
Yes, leave the policing to the police. But once they and the courts have done their jobs, ban the f*ckers who are found guilty. And if they turn out to be Roma fans pretending to be Lazio fans, then Roma should ban them.
The clubs most certainly can play a big role.
Definitely agree with that…
crikey sounds rough,not as if we don’t know about ultras though,they have strong connections with the club from the books i’ve read,but we know there are dangerous fans all over europe,i don’t think football stops because of thugs what about the 98% that aren’t and enjoy the sport
why isn’t arry managing the chavs by the way?
anyone back yet dembele ? COYS
Dembele is back but will not play tonight, he starts at the weekend. Parker also back in training, should be ready for Liverpool game.
well that is good,there is light
Not sure Parker will get back in the team easily though, the way Sandro has been playing, but we certainly need Dembele back.