I can count those making a cogent argument against moving to Stratford on one hand.
Martin Cloake’s thoughts make for thoughtful and well balanced reading. Little surprise from an author, editor and journalist who is amongst those most well placed to pass comment.
Martin ran this yesterday on his blog.
What I’d like to do is take his piece and look at it in across a few blogs. Here’s Part One….
I’ll confess my initial reaction to the ‘Spurs to Stratford’ rumours was to see it as a negotiating position. I knew Spurs were having problems with Haringey Council and, as someone who grew up in Haringey and started my working life as an employee I’m very familiar with Haringey’s ability to make a royal mess of almost everything it touches.
The Tottenham On My Mind blog has, in a well-argued piece, been critical of the “ambivalence” of many fans who took the same position. I’ll hold my hands up and it say it looks like – and only looks like – my initial reaction was wrong and that Spurs do intend to move to Stratford. But I still think many of the issues are much more complex than inevitably tends to be the case when a public debate such as this one is sparked.
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So what follows are some thoughts and questions on the while issue. And I’ll start from where I start. I want Spurs to stay in Tottenham. That’s where the club was formed, that’s where it’s always been, and that’s where its unique and extraordinary history has been forged.
The new stadium envisioned in the Northumberland Development Project looks mighty fine and it has the huge advantage of being as close to the current site as it’s possible to get. I know most of us who go to Spurs no longer live in the area. And I think there’s a lot of baloney talked about ‘community’. I’m not sure how many of the local residents like their area being invaded every other weekend and midweek night.
But English football is a complex beast, that’s why it is such a big deal. A sense of place is key to that. We are Tottenham, from the Lane is a popular song with the fans. And I’ve heard many a fan say, “The area’s a sh*ithole. But it’s our sh*thole.”
We have roots in N17 and that is just one of things that gives us the high ground over that other lot who relocated from Woolwich.
I don’t like the sound of Stratford Wanderers at all. It matters to me that watch the team from the same ground I began watching the team from in 1978, the same ground on which we won the UEFA Cup in 1984, the same ground on which we established the tradition of the glory glory European nights.
You can’t put a monetary value on that which is why the multimillionaire owners of football clubs don’t get it. Although of course, they are happy to take the monetary value we put on in in the shape of ticket prices and merchandise, the demand for which is all fueled in part by that very tradition they see as having less value than we place on it.
The club maintains it is keeping its options open. But the appointment of Mike Lee, the regular drip of stories about the ‘cost’ of redeveloping White Hart Lane and yesterday’s statement by the architect the club has employed that Stratford was the preferred option indicate that otherwise. It looks very much like the club is waiting for opinion to soften or until such time as it can say it was forced to move to Stratford. because it’s clear that at the moment the majority feeling is against the move.
There’s one key thing that needs clearing up. Exactly what, and how much, are the ‘extra’ costs of redeveloping our current home? The message coming from the club is that various public bodies are asking for too much in the form of funding improvements to the area.
They are, in fact, tagging on to the club’s plans in order get funding from the club for an area that has been left to rot for the best part of 30 years. In a club statement on 19 November, much was made of the fact that Wembley and the Emirates secured public funding, while Spurs are being asked to fund the public.
I’m not unsympathetic to that argument. Having known the area for so long it is, at best, amusing to see so many people suddenly so passionate about regenerating it after so many years when it did not register. Unless there was a riot.
But there is now a recession on, in contrast to the periods which saw Wembley and the Emirates built. And it seems to be very difficult to get a straight answer about those extra costs. It’s been put to me that it’s not just the section 106 stuff, but the cost of building a major modern stadium in the tight physical confines of Tottenham as opposed to Stratford.
There’s no reason to disbelieve that. But those costs are the same as they would always have been. They are what they are. They have not suddenly become ‘extra’. They may be more expensive than the subsequent option that has emerged. That option may be cheaper. But the argument about ‘extra’ costs does not currently stand up.
Of course, not meeting extra costs plays better with the fans than opting for cheaper. So, not for the first time it must be said, what may be an attempt to spin by Spurs has prompted suspicion rather than gathered support. 
i think the argument being put that we’ll be legally forced to change the name because we will not be in Tottenham anymore is an interesting one in terms of the precedents it sets. Does anyone actually believe it would be applied to Manchester United?
Are there any other noteworthy name changes on the cards?
Spurs employ Field Fisher Waterhouse on its trade mark and licensing issues. They have advised officials there are plenty of instances of teams moving and retaining their names: “While the historic origin of the word Tottenham’ in Tottenham Hotspur’ relates to the geographic location of Tottenham, Tottenham Hotspur is and has, for a very long time, been associated exclusively with the football club.
“There is no doubt that fans associate Tottenham Hotspur with the football club. No matter where the club are located or play their matches they will always be Tottenham Hotspur.
“Tottenham Hotspur is a trade mark which fans recognise as being clearly associated with the football team and there is absolutely no chance of anyone being misled about the origin of Tottenham Hotspur goods or services no matter where the club is located.”
and when we play away and in europe we are still Tottenham
We will not be changing our name. It is a registered trademark. End of story.
Field Fisher Waterhouse spokesman Lewis Cohen said: “While the historic origin of the word Tottenham’ in Tottenham Hotspur’ relates to the geographic location of Tottenham, Tottenham Hotspur is and has, for a very long time, been associated exclusively with the football club.
“There is no doubt that fans associate Tottenham Hotspur with the football club. No matter where the club are located or play their matches they will always be Tottenham Hotspur.
“Tottenham Hotspur is a trade mark which fans recognise as being clearly associated with the football team and there is absolutely no chance of anyone being misled about the origin of Tottenham Hotspur goods or services no matter where the club is located.”
I think that answers my question below. We’re going to be following a trademark to Stratford.
TOTTENHAM have defended their name against allegations it is just descriptive of an area and won. So the Lammy rhetoric is nonsense but then it’s not serious he’s just trying to play on emotions.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-challenge-decision-results/o15002.pdf
I’d like to know how much European regeration money he has acquired to keep the development at WHL? Nowt.
It seems that the less the club say the more people are talking themselves into moving.
The fans are so divided, any protest against it has become quite worthless.
For the record, I’m %100 against the move, and if the argument that if it ain’t in Tottenham, it ain’t Tottenham isn’t ‘cogent’ enough, then there’s little more to say.
If you really don’t want to move, talking about the benefits of Stratford Hotspur at this stage isn’t going to help.
The argument that economic conditions mean there is less opportunity to secure any public funding is clearly valid, but the same economic conditions affect the clubs ability to secure financing, lose – lose. ‘Extra’ costs they may not be, but the cash available for such developments is less than it would have been when the WHL redevelopment was first tabled.
I dont believe moving to Stratford is the answer but all the stakeholders, Haringey, THFC and TFL need to be pulling in the same direction to make northumberland park happen, far from what seems to be the case at present.
On a side note, Bristol Rovers played at Twerton Park in Bath for a few years, cant remember the background but im pretty sure dropping ‘Bristol’ was never on the cards.
I have only taken a passing interest to the Stratford thing. I too thought it a bargaining position. As it seems to become more of a reality I wonder why anyone would object.
Stratford makes sense on every level. Better transport, easier construction, lower costs, better facilities etc etc etc. Harry, you’re right that there’s no logical arguement notto move. Its all pointless emotion thats against Stratford.
And that’s my problem. Its emotion. Its fluffy stuff. It’s like the faint smell of perfume that makes you think of a lost love; Its the music that transports you back 20 years in a heartbeat. Its why we fall in love. Why do we have feelings like that? None of that’s logical. Don’t ask me to nail it to a wall and point you to it. It’s all emotional fluffy stuff. Every last featherweight, flossy bit of it.
So, we leave N17 with all our collective memories and go to the shiny new thing Stratford. Tell me, what are we following? The players on the park? Those transient gods who will be gone by the time we move there? Or perhaps it’s the souvenir stall, the guy selling badges and programmes on the high road? What is it we are actually following? WHL to me is the place where much of my emotion resides, where I smell the wooden stand in the Paxton, where I hold back a tear when I hear the first few bars of glory Glory. I am drawn to that smell, those echoing notes and I am drawn back to my history. My history.
If we move, what emotional attachment will I have to this new arranged marriage? What experiences will I have go through to fall in love again?
We hear the lament of the corner shop. How the corner shop could specialise and how the greengocer always had good fruit and the baker always had warm crusty bread that would melt in your mouth. But we all still shop in supermarkets. Convenient, easy to get to, always got a good range; Those convenient, soulless impersonal supermarkets. And while we all shop there at the expense of the grocer, none of us is loyal to a supermarket. We are all whores to convenience.
I was lucky enough to go to Wembley last year with my Dad. We’ve been to a few cup finals at the old Wembley this was the first. I’ve seen many crap games at the old Wembley but the emotion of being there with my Dad and trying to hide my blubbing every time “Abide with me” was sung made Wembley very very special for me.
This year was my first trip there. The stadium is magnificent. Much better than the old girl ever was. Abide with me came and went. The football ‘event’ took place. It all passed off without a hitch like every other well staged event. All my memories and emotions are rubble now buried under the new Tesco stadium with its soulless, convenience and efficient sanitation holds no draw for me now. The history has gone, and with it the draw. I have nothing to follow there now. I din’t have the heart to tell Dad it was a let down.
I know Stratford will be better. I know it makes sense at every logical review. But there’s a bit of me, the soft centre, the romantic idealist that we all are, that doesn’t want to bury more memories under a block of flats in N17.
I missed a full stop and “It” in there. I fully approve of efficient sanitation, contrary to the above.
Thank you.
Excellent I really dont think anyone could disagree. There is no price we can put on the emotion of supporting our club. The pain the joy is as you say what keeps us at Spurs, but its Spurs – the club – not the ground that we love. Yes it is our home and will always be remembered as such but everyone moves away when they have grown up. Think of it as us fully grown – we’re not in the CL and competing at the top level – and that little old 2 up 2 down dont fit the new job and swanky salary anymore
Bloody good post chap!
^ Co-sign
Many of the feelings, memories and thoughts you write so well about are exactly the same as mine. I too see all the benefits of Stratford, the obvious positives of a brand new, purpose built stadium with proper transport links and infrastructure. BUT you just cannot put a measure on the feelings we have for WHL, for each and every one of us it will hold different things whether it is the long mournful walk back from WHL to 7 Sisters after the last home game in 1977 when we finally realised that we had been relegated or standing in the pouring rain outside WHL on the Sunday morning after the FA Cup Final draw with Man City in 1981 waiting to get tickets for the replay. That penalty save by Tony Parks in 1984 etc…. It could be any one of a thousand memories that evoke such emotion for WHL. Having said all that it is indeed the romantic, the ideallist within me that wants that to continue at WHL. It is however, the hard headed businessmen who will make the decision and I guess we will just have to make new memories in a new place if it comes to it, which imo it probably will. Sad but Tottenham as an area has been in freefall since the late 60`s, so DL and the Board will know that the local council are hardly progressive. Shame that we should have to play this game of brinksmanship but ultimately Spurs must move forward and a new stadium is imperative if we are to remain competitive, otherwise we will be consigned to being forever mid table and having a crack at the Carling Cup.
Marvellous post.
Some really good contributions on here today boys :daumen: