Good morning and welcome to the breakfast show.
The quotes below hit the back pages of the Sun yesterday and drew some pretty predictable thoughts from me. But first, over to Van der Vaart…
“I have definitely had a series of irritations. You want to play in the position where you do best. But if I have to chase after an attacking full-back every time, I can’t play my own game to my best ability.
“Sunday was not the first time I have played out wide and I was given the freedom to move infield. But you could see from the goal I scored that my strength lies in the centre of midfield.
“It proves that I am more dangerous when I am close to the goal than when I play out on the wing. I do what the manager asks me to but I hope this won’t be a regular occurrence. In my opinion he made a mistake in making his comments about my most recent injury.
“He took me off because he did not want to take any risks with me. I can understand that but I am convinced I could have played for 90 minutes. I was amazed to be taken off. I felt I’d played a great game. I scored and also three times put team-mates in one-on-ones with Arsenal’s keeper.
But I could perhaps understand it from a tactical viewpoint. Arsenal’s left-back was continually moving upfield and I’m not the type of player who consistently runs after opponents.”
Nothing there I can really disagree with in that. He’s right.
The dangers here though are screamingly obvious. Speaking out in the press against your manager can never be described as inspired. This can of course, be viewed as a sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander moment. I can’t think of anyone in football who is more media friendly than our Aitch after all, including those working as full time pundits.
But you must scratch your head and ponder why this can’t be resolved ‘in house.’ There’s nothing controversial there, other than the fact it reveals that Rafa is as depressed by his manager’s infatuation with Defoe as everyone else is.
3MP was torn still suckling from Arry’s breast (what a deeply upsetting image, I apologize) despite the inarguable fact that he was rubbish. I define rubbish in this instance as being hired as a goalscorer and failing to score any.
Defoe will have to be removed by specialist surgeons.
The entirety of last season was spent hoping someone would score. And while we waited Rafa was juggled about as he doesn’t play the lone striker role. Now Adebayor has landed we are still juggling.
The NorfLandinDarby™ was partly dogged by Defoe’s selection over Sandro and my fear is that Arry won’t be changing his mind anytime soon. Van der Vaart has his faults but on balance he’s a classy character who routinely assists and scores goals. His name ought to be one of the first on the team sheet.
If Defoe really is – as we are surely being led to believe – ‘pulling up trees’ in training, then it down to him to then force his way past lesser players. If there aren’t any then he either has to work harder or bide his time. But you cannot have a situation where he’s hogging a place to little purpose.
We’ve been here before though, haven’t we? PSB was fielded endlessly to the mind numbing sorrow of all those unfortunate enough to be watching.
Will Arry see sense, or will this serve as a catalyst for one the best players we’ve signed in my lifetime to be sold off sooner rather than later?
I’ll say what I said elsewhere: Sunday’s game settled the debate once and for all. Why there was a debate at all is beyond me, except that Defoe has been playing well. But clearly we are better with Sandro and Parker, and Adebayor is a lock up front. So, you have three other slots to fill: the ‘3’ in a 4-2-3-1, or the wingers and second striker in a 4-4-2. Bale is a lock since he can play in either formation (and he’s good). So to fill the last two slots you need either a winger and a second striker (for a 4-4-2) or two attacking midfielders (in a 4-2-3-1).
The four best players we have for these two positions are Modric, Van der Vaart, Defoe, and Lennon. Two attacking mids, a second striker, and a winger. None are positionally flexible except, to some extent, Modric. So if you want to play people in their positions you have a choice – 4-4-2 with Defoe and Lennon, or 4-2-3-1 with Modric and Van der Vaart. Is that really such a hard choice?
To put it more simply: If you are playing Sandro, Parker, and Adebayor, you need to fill three slots with one of these four players: Bale, Modric, Van der Vaart, and Defoe. Pick the best three! How flippin’ hard is that?
If you put this question to a survey – pick the best three of those four – 99% of respondents would pick the same three players. If you surveyed non-English fans, literally 100% would pick the same three players. There are three international superstars, and one player who is known for once being one of our best players (when we had not played a European game in 20 years), and for being a failure playing for England, itself a failed squad.
I don’t understand the love affair with Defoe. The TV commentators just ooze respect for the guy – what a fox in the box, what a goal scorer. It’s always positive. Despite the fact that he’s selfish with the ball, deliberately fouls someone every time he thinks he’s been fouled, plays unintelligently (I can’t think of a player whom I want my son to watch as an example less), is a complete idiot off the pitch (let’s go drive over 100 on the Loughton High Road again Jermain!), and once bit a guy’s ear (not only was he not punished, but it was barely even talked about in the UK).
Imagine if Defoe was, say, Egyptian. Hossam Ghaly (who played his heart out for Spurs, despite whatever) was practically lynched because he threw his jersey after being substituted. Of course if Jermain was Egyptian we’d barely know his name since Harry would have no time for him.
The formation and team selection, after the Arsenal match, is completely bog-obvious. If Defoe is so great in training then what a perfect player to bring in with 20 minutes left to poach a goal. Since that’s what he does. Bringing him and Lennon on together, with fresh legs, could be a game-changer. Except that you and I both know not to count on it. We should have learned that last year, but since we Never Give Up On Defoe, we’re giving it a go once again – hopefully up until the NLD. Only.
:daumen:
I think you need to re-think your view on Defoe. He’s not as bad as you claim, at least he hasn’t been this season. He has not been selfish, has not lacked vision, has tracked back more than any forward we have had in the last 10 years, and has scored a few goals. Adeboy has missed just as many 1-on-1’s as he has.
HOWEVER. I completely agree that he is the one to drop if all of the players you (and I a few posts back) mention.
As for the game against Arsenal, I am convinced that Sandro was spared from starting because he is returning from a long injury layoff. You don’t directly criticise Aitch, but others certainly have, claiming that he rates Defoe over Sandro/VdV. I think this decision (and the decision not to play VdV for 90mins) proves exactly how much he rates the latter two players, and how concerned he is with losing either one to injury. Not that ‘Arry is being blindly loyal to a top top British lad.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see, but I’m pretty sure ‘Arry sees what you have pointed out, and know who our best 11 players are.
Your simple assertion that we can just play VdV and Modric as attacking mids in 4-2-3-1 doesn’t avoid the problem of neither of them being particularly suited to playing as a right attacking mid (being the one who is supposed to stretch the left back and get in crosses). They can’t both play behind the striker (obviously they can rotate), so with this solution one of our two most skilled (I didn’t say best) players will be playing our of their best position. It is unavoidable if everyone is fit.
Luckily, this being Spurs, they won’t all be fit for long, so this whole debate is rather pointless.
One question. Before we signed him would you have backed Harry’s call for Parker?
99% on here didn’t, yet the rest is history. Just shows how much we all know about things in football which are ‘flippin obvious’.
Astro, 99%? Nah, I’d have said it was far less to be honest, many I think saw his qualities right enough, but his age and cost initally quoted were unrealistic. When West Ham became more realistic (desperate) to off-load him and he became available at 5m, amny like me saw his addition was a quality signing, if only to shepherd Sandro through his infancy.
You and I both know that what you’ve just written is pure rose-tinted post-rationalisation. Even at £5m, most on here would have rather poked pencils in their eyes than have Parker at the club and were calling for Redknapp to be sacked for constantly linking us with sub-standard players like him.
I don’t think I could point to a single post that talked about his ability to school Sandro. Essex, you really should work in PR or politics.
Harruph, it has been mentioned once or twice, but I honestly detest politicians,although recently I can see the need for the re-introduction of extended vacations to Devil’s Island for crass stupidity and sheer ignorance. :hae: Sometimes I sit and wonder-other times, I sit and wonder!
You might have a plan there… Hmmm :shifty:
Just read the post again, and this time I was grabbed by your assertion that
clearly we are better with Sandro and Parker
And you know this for a fact after having seen them play together for all of, what, 32 minutes?
My gut also tells me that they are a fearsome center midfield pairing. But then my gut has been wrong many, many times before. And you can’t conclude anything based on less than a half of football. It may turn out in time that they are too similar. It might be that they just don’t like each other and refuse to co-operate. Maybe Parker is shagging Sandro’s missus as we speak. Who knows? We certainly don’t.
– Defoe has been better this year and I usually try to not to slag him. But he really pisses me off.
– I wanted Parker and frankly couldn’t understand why so many people did not. He was player of the year in the PL last year and plays a position that we needed help with. We tried for Diarra too. That said, I think he’s played some brilliant football this year – I can’t claim to have watched his whole career but it’s certainly better that what I saw last year.
– Modric on the right in a 4-2-3-1 requires less width from him than a 4-4-2. That said, he has proven quite capable of influencing the game from the right or left of midfield, unlike VdV.
– Lorenzo, your best point was your last one. It’s true that the body of evidence is small. But it’s been more than 32 minutes – they played the whole game at Wigan, right? In any case, I happen to believe (in case it’s not obvious from my post) that we should be playing with two DMs in a 4-2-3-1 because it’s the only way to accommodate VdV. Real got sick of accommodation and sold him. We can’t afford to – we just won’t be able to get a better player. I thought that signing Adebayor and Parker was supposed to make this possible – and mean we don’t need to play numerous players out of position in a 4-4-2.
The game time without Sandro on Sunday proves my point far better than the 32 minutes he was in there.
As I wrote, “my gut also tells me that they are a fearsome midfield pairing.”
And yes, we did look much better with Sandro against Arsenal. I also thought Arsenal looked pretty knackered by the time he came on, though, so assuming that our increased dominance was solely down to the Brazilian may be a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Against Wigan we were playing against Wigan. We should look good against them no matter who plays.
So basically pointing out that the body of evidence supporting is small was all I was trying to do. I don’t think you’ll be proven wrong, but I think it’s too early to conclude that you are “clearly” right.
As for your latter claim that “we just won’t be able to get a better player”, I would argue that we already have several (Bale, Modders, Parker, Adebayor), when you consider that they are all consistently available to play 90 mins, and don’t undemine the manager in the media. That being said, I agree VdV brings something else and far is too good for us to let go without a fight.
There seems to be a notion that the Sandro and Parker partnership in the middle (with Rat face, Bale and VdV behind Adebayor)is too defensive and should only be used at difficult away games.
Not having it.
Both Rat face and VdV would have more freedom to create and score (especially now we finally have a player who can hold the ball up), and it’s the home games where the lesser teams turn up with their 3 DMs trying to out muscle us. Win the right to play and with the quality we’ve got, we’ll win the game.
Bingo.
Not often that I agree with you TMWNN but you’re bang on the money here.
Plus, the notion that Parker and Sandro are *just* defensive midfielders who’ll allow the ‘more creative’ elements to flourish is some way wide of the mark. Both are are equally adept at getting forward when the opportunity arises and Parker, at least, has been known to score the odd goal or two.
I don’t see VdV as a long term player for Tottenham. He is great “in the hole”, a good finisher and certainly much better than Defoe, who again looked out of his depth on Sunday. However ultimately we need width on the right, the entire length of the pitch, plus a genuine class striker to play with Adebayor or on his own if necessary. If Adebayor gets injured we are rubber ducked goals wise.
I am confused moanibg because our forwards dont track back and are expected to tack when going for goal.le the oppos forwards. Moaning when our backs dont go flying down the wing and cross.the backs should be back the forwards should be forward .up and down the pitch bumping ibto each other on the way back and forth for 30 mins would knacker anyone out. backs cant score and forwarda cant tackle.
Melc
Not your finest post, bet you did this on a smartphone??!!
I get yer drift though mate ;-)
:-D :-D :-D
Harry’s formations have the flexibility of a table football team
Rafa is right – on Sunday he was an accident waiting to happen and sure enough he scored coming in from the left wing and didn’t track his man allowing him to cross for the goal.
Rafa in place of Defoe in our best 11 (that said Defoe actually worked very hard on Sunday)